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Circular linking patterns of the SEO elites
I am going to ignore SEO blogs and focus on more useful stuff like helping people out in groups and forums. The circular linking patterns of the handful of SEO elites is getting tedious to follow. I also did a study of my incoming links and find pretty much the only thing any “elite” has linked to are a few of my old SEO interviews. That’s right, not a single post I can find has been linked to with any positive reference, I am not part of the clan.
In other words, there is a very small group of people controlling the entire SEO “conversation” and you can easily pick out who is friends with whom by studying the circular linking patterns. Their daily posts almost appear to have been written to trade keywords, for example; “You link to my post on supplemental results in Google and I will post a link to something of yours”. I do not believe it is planned with such accuracy but the back scratching is extremely obvious.
I wear many hats online and play in much friendlier fields, this so called “SEO community” is very small and extremely unwelcoming to newbies. Kind of sad really!
February 12th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Well taking your ball and going home isn’t going to get anybody to play with you …
There’s and old axiom if people link to you and visit your pages about oranges, write about more oranges and less and less about apples.
Just my 2 drachmas.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Michael – True, I spent a week in Google groups and couldn’t believe it, people found my blog, read what I was saying and linked to it openly. This doesn’t happen in the SEO blogosphere. It’s a very controlled almost insecure environment.
February 13th, 2007 at 1:01 am
Aaron,
I think i’d agree with Michael here.
I’ve been following your blog from the start, and back then you were a big hit with your interviews.
Thing is, if you want the big dogs to link to you you have to write what they ‘WANT’ to link to. It’s not mandatory, but no one gives out a free lunch. Thee peeps in google groups link to you because they wanted to know that stuff and it was fresh to them.
The ’seo elite’ that you speak of – they’re past that hill, you know.
Go build something really cool with Yahoo Pipes and see how that gets you links :)
People will link to you if they think you’re linkworthy. Personal grudges (and friendships) come a distant second, although yea, having an A-lister as a friend definitely helps. Try being nicer, I guess :)
February 13th, 2007 at 3:13 am
Hi Aaron
It’s called living on the long tail. Don’t worry, Google loves you. You’ll be making connections with like-minded people as they keep their radar screens open. It depends on your goals: being part of a noisy crowd or having smaller and more insightful discussions. Keep them coming.
February 13th, 2007 at 4:48 am
Ahmed – I hate the word “linkworthy”, it often has nothing to do with what you write, it has to do ALL with who you are in bed with.
If you also notice, everyone is now doing “interviews” so they are not cool anymore. In fact, many of the daily post done on popular blogs ideas are often pulled from unknown bloggers blogs. “Hey, he can’t be known for that, I must quickly write about that and have all my friends link to it, better yet I will hit Digg with one of my many accounts”! No joke, this is the insecurity level I am seeing, do not make me start showing examples. ;)
Barry – There is a lot of truth to that man, but don’t worry about little ol’ me, I do not blog to gain fair weather friends or attention. You will not see any “top ten” lists here, that is unless I am making fun of top ten lists. :)
February 13th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Aaron – what are you waiting for then?
Expose the elites, if you think there really is a great sense of insecurity. At least share it with me via email :P
And yes, it’s called whoring yourself out until you’re a part of them – then you can ‘lead’ all you want.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Who are you trying to reach, though? If you want the established SEO community to pay attention to you, you’re going to have to publish more misinformation along the lines of “it’s all about links”, “Toolbar PageRank matters”, “high PR helps your rankings”, “you have to wait a year before your site will rank”, etc.
Which isn’t to say that all those myths haven’t been poo-pooed now and then by the gurus, but you’re more likely to draw links if you say things like “SEO isn’t rocket science” because it strikes home at the heart.
It’s all about the egos, you know. :)
February 13th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Aaron,
I’ve followed your blog from the start off and on and I notice a lot of your comments around the sphere. In my opinion one of the problems might be your attitude, you often times comes across as being negative and a know it all. I’m not sure if that is really the case or it’s just the way I interpret your writing, probably the latter.
Anyways, I am not trying to insult you, just telling you from my POV.
Peace,
Cameron
February 13th, 2007 at 10:04 am
MM – those myths do have ’some’ truth in them, even if they’re not absolutely true.
but other than that, I’d say it’s solid advice.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Aaron, I hate to burst your bubble, but you do the same thing man. When’s the last time you linked to an unknown SEO blogger? (lol, like when do you ever link to me dammit, except that one time)
Here’s a list of sites ‘n people you linked to recently:
digg
webguerilla
pronetadvertising
googlesystems.blogspot
searchenglineland
feedthebot (via mattcutts/blog)
keyworddiscovery
Ya know what I’m saying Aaron? You don’t like what you’re seeing in the SEO blogosphere but you’re doing nada to change it. I think you’re just not happy because you’re not getting enough attention…:D Admit it, we all want attention – after all, like rebecca said, bloggers are attention whores.
BTW Graywolf makes a good point.
@Michael: I know you’re itching to write a post titled “SEOs are on crack: Content matters, links don’t” :D
February 13th, 2007 at 10:23 am
http://technorati.com/search/www.seobuzzbox.com?sort=authority&start=0
Looks like an impressive list of people to me. :-)
February 13th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Nice challenge Halfdeck, you do make a good point though about linking more to people who are outside this small attentionspere. Linked to this today: http://www.ever-so-sexy.com/ (to see if I could help the person out of supplementals)
Thanks Ahmed, that was very generous of you to link to me, you do not need me to send you emails, just look around, it is very obvious who is currently in and who is currently out.
I have been friends with Michael Gray from the beginning of SEO blogging, he will openly admit that his technique for becoming part of the clan was the anti-Google SEO thing. So yeah, anyone can find a niche that “the elites” link to I guess but do we really want to become actors?
How much value does circular linking have anyhow? I know on Digg it is currently the way they detect spammers algorithmically.
I should have titled this post “Top ten ways to burn your bridges”, sorry if I ruffle any feathers.
Cameron – Yes I agree, will be nicer now I have said what is bothering me, Rand linked to his interview but then used me as a negative example of why not to blog about politics from an SEO blog. This type out things just irks me sorry.
Andy – Yeah, I got a few links but nothing compaired with those who are from your crowd of friends. Those old inteviews sure were good linkbait eh?
February 13th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Well, I’m traveling right now and not linking to much of anything..
February 13th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
For those keeping score at home.
That’s link bait: 1
Content: 0
You got your links…
http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&q=Circular+linking+patterns+of+the+SEO+elites&btnG=Search+Blogs
February 13th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
I kinda agree with Cameron. Seems to me that you go out of your way to not build relationships with people.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Matt – You have actually been a great help to me and others, thanks.
Peter – Not agreeing does not mean I do not want to be your friend. You still upset about the wiki nofollow tag debate we had? :)
You may have also seen my debate with Aaron Wall when I mentioned that Reviewme.com is violating Google’s guidelines and he went off and called me an idiot. Would you prefer me to say that PayPerSpam is great when I believe it is destroying peoples blogs without them having any idea? How does one exist amongst a lot of bad self serving SEO advice without disagreeing from time to time?
I am still friends with Graywolf and he thinks that the nofollow tag is lame and payperpost rocks. Michaal can handle a challenge, this is why I think he is pretty cool even if we do not always agree.
There needs to be more debate in the SEO community, I believe if their is not it will implode.
February 13th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
No, Aaron, it’s not about the nofollow debate. I understand that my opinions on Wikipedia and nofollow are not in line with most SEOs. Try not to be so defensive.
February 13th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
I’m just towing the Google line, paid links are bad, paid reviews with non guaranteed linking is good.
February 13th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
I used to worry about this. I’d scoop news and hit topics long before the A-list crowd, write depth-articles about timely topics, etc. Never received one link (except one from Bill Slawski on my Google Billboards article) and as far as I can tell, I’m not on one A-lister’s blogroll.
It’s just one of those things outside of my circle of influence, and life is too short to worry about this stuff. I’m not mad at anyone, and have no expectations for the future. I will enjoy the occasional comment I get from the small set of subscribers I have and those who read my magazine articles.
February 14th, 2007 at 3:05 am
I’m not sure the world is as black and white as that, graywolf, and I’m sure Google doesn’t think so.
February 14th, 2007 at 7:51 am
Aaron, you know, you really need to link to all the other A-listers, if you want to get a link from them. Not to mention you need to write what should interest them. Some won’t bother, some will.
For a start, you can try linking to other people from the same league.
And yes, here’s another article from Mike Grehan:
http://www.e-marketing-news.co.uk/Oct04/RichLinking.html
P.S. I have to say Bill Slawski is very nice to talk to about various stuff and he’s generous about links to whomever. I guess it depends on a person? (And yes, if you tell me about an interesting article on your blog, I might link to it, too).
Cheers.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:17 am
graywolf – hehe that was weak. ;)
Yuri – Though it may appear I am looking for links from A-listers it is far from the truth… just observing a few things. My initial SEO interviews were done to develop site flavor and it worked extremely well.
Barry Westford’s “living on the long tail” is also hot, ever built a site and kind of forgotten about search engines for a year or two? Ever notice huge traffic and realize that you rank #1 for a useful “keyword”? Google doesn’t forget about you though I do believe circular linking is still game.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:17 am
http://www.stonetemple.com/blog/?p=100#comment-2259
February 14th, 2007 at 8:33 am
February 14th, 2007 at 8:40 am
“Aaron, you know, you really need to link to all the other A-listers, if you want to get a link from them. Not to mention you need to write what should interest them. Some won’t bother, some will.”
I call that ass kissing :) Unless you’re planning on making a fortune on this blog Aaron, I’d say keep writing what you want to write about.
February 14th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Aaron, you described a potential problem for a SEO, as a new one (or you or me) is never linked to. Getting into the blogosphere and linking to other people around you is a way to get integrated and get linked to, too.
I have yet to be managing a site for more than two years, but yes, I see your point.
Halfdeck, it is not ass kissing. If you don’t like an A-Lister, don’t link to him/her. Link to what you want, but you’ll be what you link to.
February 15th, 2007 at 7:51 am
You’ve made a habit of crying about not getting attention from people. You bait them, you insult them, and you in general don’t have much nice to a say so why is it suprising that no one wants to link to you ?
February 15th, 2007 at 8:04 am
webprofessor – the only people I have had problems with in the past are andy hagans, aaron wall and DaveN (though he is pretty cool now) and sometimes rand (but I like him and am just messing around) so yes, if you are a fan of threadwatch expect more of the same from me in there.
I wish more people were not afraid to point out incorrect information that is ruining the reputation of a growing industry.
February 15th, 2007 at 10:28 am
aaron, i enjoy reading your input across your site and other seo blogs and forums. i don’t think you’re a dick, and i think more debate is an excellent idea. my blog gets no traffic, so start something firey here and i’ll have at it.
February 16th, 2007 at 4:23 am
Aaron, I was glad to see comments to your post using the words “insecure” and “egos”. If you study psychology, you will easily find why “cliques” evolve. Don’t ever change just because of peer pressure. If you see some aspect of the Search Marketing industry that needs “positive conviction”, then do it. Resign yourself to the fact that nobody likes to be convicted (including ourselves), but make sure your motives are to help and not condemn.
I have tried in the past to help the reputation of the Search Marketing industry, but never really succeeded except in the trying. It is still a young industry with many young people in it. That, in and of itself, tends to create “circular linking patterns (cliques) of the SEO elites (egos)”.
February 16th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Thanks corey and Brokerblogger. :)
February 27th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
This happens in just about every niche. I run a traffic exchange, and it seems every time I create something new or do something to help new users, it goes unnoticed by the “elites”. But when one of them does something new then they all send an email out saying how great it is and to join. I still run my exchange outside of the circle and live my life ;-)
February 27th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
I just stopped by to say Thank You for taking time to read my post and give me your two cents….
As someone new that has been thrown into the lion’s den of SEO techniques, you and those like you are like a lifeline to someone like me that is treading water and tired… It’s likely that I speak for more than just myself when I say we would more than likely be floating face down if it weren’t for the kindness you show by taking your valuable time to respond to our desperate pleas…
Thank you again…
Spencer
February 27th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Spencer – Wow that is the best comment I have had all week, I am interested in your story, please contact me when you can. Wish I had more time to help further.
admin [@] seobuzzbox.com
February 28th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
For the most part, I’d agree. However, there are times when certain people and things must be condemned for the benefit of others who may fall into the same trap.
My rule of thumb is “help unless someone should and probably does know better, in which case open up a can of whoopass.”
March 1st, 2007 at 4:03 am
I think we are in “total agreement”, SEFL, as I agree with you about “certain people”. My contention is that you can do the “can of whoopass”, as long as you do it in a diplomatic way (definition of “diplomacy” = The ability to tell people to “go to hell” in such a way, as they enjoy the trip.) Also, wherever possible, have suggestions as to how to improove the situation vs. just complaining.
March 1st, 2007 at 5:27 am
You guys have me in stitches. What sort of can of whoop ass do you intend on inflicting ? I sure hope i don’t ever have to tangle with the likes of you guys, I might get whined to death.
March 1st, 2007 at 7:04 am
Brokerblogger: I don’t believe in diplomacy. I can’t have as much fun that way. ;)
But yeah, I can see your point. You want to try and be somewhat nice to people so that others around may see your line of thinking. I just suck at being nice to scumbags, that’s all.
May 25th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Sod the seo elite!